Important PC hardware specs or good laptops for producing, etc?

[DSM]

With the holidays upon us and the fact I should be getting a fat check back from Uncle Sam, I was hoping to get some recommendations on things I should look for when buying a PC laptop to be used for producing, recording live sets, etc.

Minimum Processing?

Minimum amount of memory?

Is on-board sound that important, or are there good USB, etc sound cards that are good to consider in lieu/possible to save $$ versus on-board?

Any other items I should look for?

I'm guessing I'd probably want XP on there for now, although Windows 7 sounds pretty rad... just not sure how many software packages, etc (e.g. Live) work well in that environment. Any feedback?

Or are there any monsters that are awesome right off the shelf you would recommend I consider?

Thanks!

[Just Ben]

On-board sound will be built in to pretty much any laptop you get today so there isn't really any cost savings there. However, you will still want to get an external sound device, ideally a FireWire and not a USB, for production.

So make sure the laptop has a firewire port.

Memory: 2 to 4gb depending on price. Don't spend any money on more than 4gb.

The fastest SATA disk you can find.

Dual or Quad core CPU and the highest bus speed you can find.

Check out these: http://mtechlaptops.com/laptop%20compare%20page.htm

Same manufacturer as a lot of big name brands but cheaper.

Have fun!

[cybr]

http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/ZY222UA?Rep=JAT

Just put this one on sale today.

[rolfmonster]

:lol: I was just about to say, cue cyber

[Just Ben]

Smokin deal..

No FireWire though??

[rolfmonster]

I've been weary of the AMD procs lately, so haven't run them with any studio software, from what I've seen though the AMDs are seriously lacking these days compared to intel procs? Or maybe it's just the top end procs w/ AMD that have been shitty. I know their quad core cpus are getting really poor reviews..

[DSM]

On-board sound will be built in to pretty much any laptop you get today so there isn't really any cost savings there. However, you will still want to get an external sound device, ideally a FireWire and not a USB, for production.

guess I didn't phrase it quite right, def meant whether there are any on-boards worthwhile on the market or if i should be looking at external as i know they'll all have on-board. but it does sound like you recommend going external regardless. thanks for that and the other info as well :)

[Just Ben]

Gotcha...

If there are any on-board sound devices worthwhile for production, I don't know of them..

I decent FireWire one can be had for only a few hundred though..

[cybr]

has no firewire, but it does have a geforce 8200 video card innit.

Check this shit out.

For all you sideways5'ers, I'll do 12% off ANY FUCKING THING on the site til Sat:

www.techforless.com/friends (http://www.techforless.com/friends)

Make sure you choose my name as your sales rep (Joshua Thomas). Yes, that's 12% off the $387 price above.

Woot ain't got shit on me.

[Fonzie]

Not to hustle JT out of a sale, but I can almost guarantee that any of the cheaper laptops he will sell you have the RICOH firewire chipset which will result in pops and clicks when you're streaming audio.

You want the Texas Instruments chipset which will stream with no latency problems.

[Just Ben]

Ohh very good point, Fonzie.. I totally forgot about that, but it is very much the case...

[cybr]

Not to hustle JT out of a sale, but I can almost guarantee that any of the cheaper laptops he will sell you have the RICOH firewire chipset which will result in pops and clicks when you're streaming audio.

You want the Texas Instruments chipset which will stream with no latency problems.

I stated before this unit doesn't have firewire.

If you need firewire, any laptop on our site is 12% off our regular low prices. Pick one. Chances are there's a mix of both ricoh and texas instruments, and the best way to find out which the laptop has is to call the manufacturer and ask, as most spec sheets don't list brand of firewire chip on them.

To hastily assume every laptop that I can get you a deal on has the Ricoh chip is complete fail though.

Anyone want a brand new macbook air for $1k?

How about this Macbook Pro for $913? Do they use RICOH?
http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech4less/MA895LL/A?Rep=JAT

[Fonzie]

Read my post, and I mean actually read it, fuckstick. I was even trying to be nice


Not to hustle JT out of a sale, but I can almost guarantee that any of the cheaper laptops he will sell you have the RICOH firewire chipset which will result in pops and clicks when you're streaming audio.


I'm sure you've got a few that have the TI chipset, but pretty much every low-end laptop I've seen has the RICOH which simply doesn't work for music production. You've got no reason to run your mouth, either, as you couldn't even tell me which chipsets were in the shitty laptops you tried to sell me after the whole Dell fiasco.

Long story short, Nick, if you want a computer that is guaranteed to have the components you'll need for music, buy a Mac. You can even boot camp it to run windows if you're dead set on that OS.

[Tommy B]

if the system is gonna be used for strictly music. then Id say get a macbook.

I have even tried to bog mine out running a bunch of stuff at once, and it dont budge at all. I have had several pc laptops over the years and I never felt comfy relying on my laptop to play out live.

to each their own. I know lots of people that use PC notebooks for gigs and production.

I am going off my own personal experiences with this tho.

[rolfmonster]

if the system is gonna be used for strictly music. then Id say get a macbook.

I have even tried to bog mine out running a bunch of stuff at once, and it dont budge at all. I have had several pc laptops over the years and I never felt comfy relying on my laptop to play out live.

to each their own. I know lots of people that use PC notebooks for gigs and production.

I am going off my own personal experiences with this tho.

I can say the same, for work and music, I hammer the shit out of mine(not to mention it's bent now) and it just keeps going

[infuzion]

However, you will still want to get an external sound device, ideally a FireWire and not a USB, for production.

So make sure the laptop has a firewire port.

Memory: 2 to 4gb depending on price. Don't spend any money on more than 4gb.

The fastest SATA disk you can find.

Dual or Quad core CPU and the highest bus speed you can find.(not arguing with you Just Ben; just bouncing off of you)
I tried the Firewire route, & failed. The laptops' FW connector is so small & shallow I'd expect to bump it out every gig. I had to buy 2 PCI Firewire cards to find one that worked with my Firebox. If you only want a few channels in/out, USB2 external, or PCI pro audio card is fine. Firewire is only needed if you're going like 4 channel 192kHz sampling rate, or 8+ channel 96k.

I agree with the Memory recommends, & would add if going 2gb, look for 1-stick used for laptop (1 slot free), or if desktop, 2gb in only 2 sticks, with 2 slots free, for easier & cheaper memory expantion later.

SATA disk: might be cheaper to buy the cheapest SATA option, then buy the fastest-largest on the side, perhaps at a slightly later time. Not only you can use the origional one (via USB if laptop, or leave in for desktop & put only work files on the fastest), but my be the same price/cheaper for more.

If building your own PC, the Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i5,2410-14.html)is the best value for the money right now IMHO.

Not sure if you want to pay the Mac-tax, but when I went to the Ableton Live users group last Sunday, all 7 but 1 laptops were Macs.. half of them were prior PC users that swear that Macs are more stable (Win7 is changing that), & that lone WinXP laptop guy is 40% likely to replace his with a Mac as well.

edit: Intel Core2 are much faster then their AMD counterparts since they optimize the opcodes so well. The newest & greatest AMD chips are better at opcode optimization than old AMD, then again Intel's i-series CPU are better still ;).

[dis=c0!]

loooove my mac, get one, they are teh sexxxxe. :)

[cybr]

Read my post, and I mean actually read it, fuckstick. I was even trying to be nice

I'm sure you've got a few that have the TI chipset, but pretty much every low-end laptop I've seen has the RICOH which simply doesn't work for music production. You've got no reason to run your mouth, either, as you couldn't even tell me which chipsets were in the shitty laptops you tried to sell me after the whole Dell fiasco.

Long story short, Nick, if you want a computer that is guaranteed to have the components you'll need for music, buy a Mac. You can even boot camp it to run windows if you're dead set on that OS.

I did actually read it. I was also being nice, but you forget one thing.

Just because our price is cheap doesn't mean the unit is a less expensive unit normally, hence my point. Our business model is different than you're used to... I keep trying to explain that, but the meaning gets lost somewhere between GT and DF.

And if you read my post... I mean actually read it, along with the post I gave you after your Dell fiasco, you'll see the same is still true. Contact the manufacturer. If the manufacturer can't tell you which chip they put on their board, how the fuck are you to expect a reseller that hasn't even seen the laptop to know?

[infuzion]

Just because our price is cheap doesn't mean the unit is a less expensive unit normally, hence my point. Our business model is different than you're used to... I keep trying to explain that, but the meaning gets lost somewhere between GT and DF.

And if you read my post... I mean actually read it, along with the post I gave you after your Dell fiasco, you'll see the same is still true. Contact the manufacturer. If the manufacturer can't tell you which chip they put on their board, how the fuck are you to expect a reseller that hasn't even seen the laptop to know?Sometimes T4L is the best deal, sometimes not, though your hook-up does help even more. Good to have in your price-hunting arsenal like dealnews.

BTW, I think Device Manager tells you the chipset. 95% of the time, it doesn't matter, but in the case of hard-core streaming audio/video/files
via Firewire & USB, that info is needed.

[cybr]

If that's the case, I'm more than willing to pull it up and turn it on to get info like that for ya.

[Just Ben]

(not arguing with you Just Ben; just bouncing off of you)
I tried the Firewire route, & failed. The laptops' FW connector is so small & shallow I'd expect to bump it out every gig. I had to buy 2 PCI Firewire cards to find one that worked with my Firebox. If you only want a few channels in/out, USB2 external, or PCI pro audio card is fine. Firewire is only needed if you're going like 4 channel 192kHz sampling rate, or 8+ channel 96k.

I agree with the Memory recommends, & would add if going 2gb, look for 1-stick used for laptop (1 slot free), or if desktop, 2gb in only 2 sticks, with 2 slots free, for easier & cheaper memory expantion later.

SATA disk: might be cheaper to buy the cheapest SATA option, then buy the fastest-largest on the side, perhaps at a slightly later time. Not only you can use the origional one (via USB if laptop, or leave in for desktop & put only work files on the fastest), but my be the same price/cheaper for more.

If building your own PC, the Intel Core i5 2.66 GHz (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i5,2410-14.html)is the best value for the money right now IMHO.

Not sure if you want to pay the Mac-tax, but when I went to the Ableton Live users group last Sunday, all 7 but 1 laptops were Macs.. half of them were prior PC users that swear that Macs are more stable (Win7 is changing that), & that lone WinXP laptop guy is 40% likely to replace his with a Mac as well.

edit: Intel Core2 are much faster then their AMD counterparts since they optimize the opcodes so well. The newest & greatest AMD chips are better at opcode optimization than old AMD, then again Intel's i-series CPU are better still ;).

I had the same issue with past setups as far as a live rig is concerned and at best I got it OK and it came from just having a different laptop from a different manufacturer and the built in firewire port was just a little more snug.

I guess I was thinking/speaking more for in the studio setup, I wasn't thinking about a live rig.. Your right, the mini FireWire port sucks ass for giging..

I'm assuming you mean PCMCIA port (PCI is in desktops where PCMCIA is the card for laptops)? The thing about going with USB or PCMCIA is that you don't get the performance benefit of FireWire even if its PCMCIA firewire card to a firewire sound card. You have to have the built in port that ties directly to the main bus otherwise your going to be limited to the bus rate of the PCMCIA card which is WAY slower than FireWire.

And it actually matters for audio processing not just recording. Faster bus speed to your sound device will allow you to run lower buffer settings, as long as the rest of your machine can hang...

Good point on the SATA drive too.. Really you just want fast disk for OS, Applications and audio temp files.. Long term storage can go on a slow disk.

[DMinus]

yeah i still don't buy the mac is more stable thing... but here is what i would say for PC buys:

--have not had the issues others purport for the firewire chipset, but then again not clear what mine is - its a high end dell, so y'all experts tell me
--PC firewire is almost always the tiny little 4-pin rather than larger 6 pin - as such it doesn't snap in so i assume thats what infuzion was talking about. i just set it somewhere stable and safe, and i don't get all uppity and jump around and i've never actually knocked it out during a set. knock on wood.
--they will all come with audio, and none will ever be as good as an external, so would never purchase on audio hardware presets. in fact buy the simplest cheapest one (some sound blaster shit will just cost more money and not do anything cool for you). not only that but sometimes the more elaborate audio hardware is harder to disable, too.
--decent video is important, but if you're only playing music, DAWs don't need nearly the video memory that a typical game does, so thats not important either.
--i have not bought AMD in years for audio computing, probably in part because of old habits - back in the day they were no bueno, but i bet they are okay now. i still avoid on principle though, and no celeron either. just get the real deal. its the same fucking processors as they have in macs now anyway.

[DMinus]

oh, and for all you maclickers:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

key takeaway: "If I want to manufacture biological weapons with my copy of iTunes, I will, fascists."

;)

[infuzion]

I'm assuming you mean PCMCIA port (PCI is in desktops where PCMCIA is the card for laptops)?Yes & Yes; I tried both for FW, & the only success was the 2nd PCI card, PCMCIA & 1st PCI had issues.

Really you just want fast disk for OS, Applications and audio temp files.. Long term storage can go on a slow disk.With tweaked OS settings, IMHO all modern HDs have enough buffer & speed for loading the OS & apps now

@DMinus: When the Pentium4s were Intel's flagship., the Athalon64s were far better. The Core changed things.
Intels' 4500 on-board graphics seem to be good enough on speed tests; as good as the lowest-end descrete graphics cards. A slight hit on the memory bandwith front, but I'd spend the extra cash on a faster buss/CPU if the computer I was buying came with 4500 & descrete graphics were a $ add-on.

[DSM]

Aiight, I was fortunate enough to come into possession of a laptop. No firewire tho. So, I need recommendations...

for a sound card, is it better to look at USB 2 or at PCMCIA? (at least it looks like this has both)

also, how many midi ports does one typically require and/or use to produce?? i'd guess that hopefully whatever sound card i have includes one. i'm really not even knowing where to get started with this, but i do have some good software to help me get started (ableton, traktor, fl studio).

Any suggestions for a clueless one?

The machine doesn't have the ideal processing power, etc that i'd like, but i need to start somewhere and anything's better than my desktop right now.

[Alert]

I use a beat-down iBook (from 2004, using Live 5!) for playing out live, with a MOTU external soundcard.

Hasn't failed me yet.

:party: :party: :party: :party:

"If I had money" I'd get what all the tech folks on here recommend, though.

They know what's up.

[cybr]

LoL. it's true, I was rereading this post...

He said, what's the requirements for production.

I'm sure the PC's from 4-5 years ago worked fine back then for production...

[Disko]

Aiight, I was fortunate enough to come into possession of a laptop. No firewire tho. So, I need recommendations...

for a sound card, is it better to look at USB 2 or at PCMCIA? (at least it looks like this has both)

also, how many midi ports does one typically require and/or use to produce?? i'd guess that hopefully whatever sound card i have includes one. i'm really not even knowing where to get started with this, but i do have some good software to help me get started (ableton, traktor, fl studio).

Any suggestions for a clueless one?

The machine doesn't have the ideal processing power, etc that i'd like, but i need to start somewhere and anything's better than my desktop right now.

are you planning on playing live off of your computer? if you aren't going to be gigging with it then you can probably put the soundcard on the back burner for a while, unless you need to use it as an audio interface and need the I/O

what controllers do you have or are you planning on using? usually the issue can be not having enough USB ports. not midi, if you need to use your midi ports in more than one app you can download midi yoke, which is a PITA to install but i worked through it yesterday so if you ever need help with that hit me up.

usually your bottle neck isn't your processor speed, if it's at least a dual core you should be fine. more often you will see a bottleneck in the amount of RAM or cache.

my laptop is a dual core w/3mb of cache and 3g of ram and i run ableton flawlessly. some VSTs like Massive can be a CPU hog though. if you run into that problem i suggest exporting whatever you are doing in massive or whatever it is you are using, and just importing that clip into your project so you don't need to have massive running in the background all the time.

my main suggestion with you being new to everything. is play with all your software and see what you really like. I suggest using ableton because it's very capable and you can use it to do anything from writing original songs or just for DJing, but see what you like, check out some tutorials on youtube and peruse all your controller options to see what would best fit.

[BeatFreq]

i won't repeat the 'macs never crash' lie, but i will say this: every time i've seen someone's laptop crap out at a show and ruin their set, it's been a pc. every time.

as for usb vs pcmcia, i'd go with usb, if only because the connection's a bit sturdier. i used to have a pcmcia interface, and the connection between the cable & card was just so flimsy, i had to be super careful not to tug on it or it'd start to pull the card apart.

[dmtree]

i won't repeat the 'macs never crash' lie, but i will say this: every time i've seen someone's laptop crap out at a show and ruin their set, it's been a pc. every time.



i've seen a few macs crash during live performance.

i've also heard about macs dying right after warranty expires = $1000 paperweight.

[Puff Powers]

I have both. My AMD chip never failed me ever in my PC and my MAC is the best thing since sliced bread. I still use the PC for converting music but thats it. I mean there is a reason 99% of serious producers use MAC's... They just work without all the BS of drivers and extra crap. I plug in any midi control and it works without having to install anything. I get new software it's ready to go in a flash. If you want somethng made for what you are doing, get a MAC. If you want to play video games and write code, get a PC.

[WAVERUNNER]

Aiight, I was fortunate enough to come into possession of a laptop. No firewire tho. So, I need recommendations...

for a sound card, is it better to look at USB 2 or at PCMCIA? (at least it looks like this has both)

also, how many midi ports does one typically require and/or use to produce?? i'd guess that hopefully whatever sound card i have includes one. i'm really not even knowing where to get started with this, but i do have some good software to help me get started (ableton, traktor, fl studio).

Any suggestions for a clueless one?

The machine doesn't have the ideal processing power, etc that i'd like, but i need to start somewhere and anything's better than my desktop right now.


Motu Ultralite

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite-mk3

Solid, works great with everything, pro quality, all the options you will need for years, even if you upgrade your DAW, and you will never look back.

anything else, you will post a thread asking how to get something going.

Nuff said.

[Alert]

He said, what's the requirements for production.

I must have been looking at the "etc." part.

:doh:


laptop to be used for producing, recording live sets, etc.

[Jontron]

With the holidays upon us and the fact I should be getting a fat check back from Uncle Sam, I was hoping to get some recommendations on things I should look for when buying a PC laptop to be used for producing, recording live sets, etc.

Minimum Processing?

Minimum amount of memory?

Is on-board sound that important, or are there good USB, etc sound cards that are good to consider in lieu/possible to save $$ versus on-board?

Any other items I should look for?

I'm guessing I'd probably want XP on there for now, although Windows 7 sounds pretty rad... just not sure how many software packages, etc (e.g. Live) work well in that environment. Any feedback?

Or are there any monsters that are awesome right off the shelf you would recommend I consider?

Thanks!

Go USB if your using a PC Laptop.

Firewire for Macs.

Windows XP is on its way out the door... and I've seen Live work well in Vista. (dont know about W7)

I just switched to Mac too... so if you have the money (and eventually want to do live sets)... do it.

[DSM]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I basically inherited a laptop. Not a dual core... 2.1ghz shitrino, 2 gig of ram

2 USB ports
and believe it or not, it looks like it does have a midi port, lol

and unless I'm smoking crack, 2x PCMCIA. I do understand the fragility of the cords tho - I had both 28.8 and 56k PCMCIA modems for a laptop way back in the day.

I know this isn't ideal gear, but I need to make it work, at least for now... let me see if I can even do this producing shit first - get parts that will work okay with what I've got now but when I upgrade the laptop will still work okay.

Main goal is production, second is recording live sets. Not planning on doing anything live with it, we'll see if I can even manage the basics before I begin dreaming that big. Not planning on doing any DJing or anything with it either. Strictly production, recording, and maybe a lil fun with photoshop.

The biggest reason I ask about sound card is that I figured the audio output of the on-board sound would not be adequate to get a good feel for how what I'm working on "actually" sounds.

[Jontron]

I would have to recommend an M-Audio Fastrak Pro for you. It has RCA outputs and I've seen these things work with many laptops pretty damn good.


Down the line you will need reference monitors too, and probably a keyboard if you like a more hands on experience.